Big Ten Network

[festivus]

Well I see that OSU's first 2 games this year will be on this crazy little network. Seems that only DirectTV has signed up for it.

Any word whether Dish is going to sign up in time? How about TWC and WoW?

I'm really beginning to hate these new little networks that hold fans hostage.

[rossl]

I sent a message to the WOW customer care asking them to carry Big Ten Network in HD.
:D

[Scott]

Are they still going to have a game broadcast on ESPN U as well? If so, there is going to be plenty of bitchin' going on around here.

[rossl]

response:


~~~

Thank you for contacting WOW! Internet, Cable and Phone,

WOW! is currently in negotiations with the Big Ten Network. At this time,
we have not come to an agreement regarding offering the channel, and do
not have specific information regarding the channel but we are working
with that provider to receive the Big Ten Network channel.

Thank you,
Tech Support
WOW! Internet, Cable, and Phone

~~~

[Scott]

In a somewhat related note, did anyone hear that the commissioner of the Big 12--yes, the commissioner--has left the conference to take on a role @ the Big Ten Network? Not to totally derail this thread, but what possible job at the BTN could be higher than the commissioner of the Big 12. The BTN already has a president.

[festivus]

Heard on the radio this AM that the Big Ten Network wants $1.10 per subscriber from cable companies. Not sure if this is a one time payment, yearly, or what. Seems that only Direct TV has reached an agreement with this little kidnapper of football fans.

I've reached the point where I'm hoping that no one else does reach an agreement with this crummy little network, it bleeds money, and goes under. How far can this type of thing go? The NFL Network was bad enough. What's next? The Olympics Network. The Super Bowl Network. The March Madness Network. All demanding money from providers. It's getting insane.

[geneo3]

I read that Dish and the cable providers are fighting to get the per subscriber price down, so they won’t have to charge a subscription fee or place it in the premium tear. So far for this upcoming season Direct will not charge extra. ESPN U hasn’t said anything that I have seen or heard about the fall season. The discussion keeps floating around that because of the rising costs, that we are going have to eventually watch all major sports on premium or pay per view channels. I am really unhappy about that idea.:twisted:

[jpdublin]

The Big 10 Network is yet another reason I am glad I carry Directv. It seems to be the superior provider IMO.

[JayPSU]

AT&T's U-Verse also has an agreement with BTN. Yet another reason to leave TWC, as if we didn't already have a ton, when U-Verse arrives here in the next month or two. TWC has benefitted from there being no major competition in our area for a very long time. That's about to come to an end. You would think they would begin to start adding HD channels, and CERTAINLY providing a way for Buckeye fans to see their team play with a service like U-Verse coming. However, they just don't seem to get it. They're going to lose A LOT of customers when AT&T gets here, and it's LONG overdue.

[festivus]

I don't blame the providers as much as I blame the big ten on this one. Providers are put in bad positions every time that someone dreams up some new network and wants to charge a crazy fee for it. I'm tired of these crazy little new sports networks. Unfortunately, I think that this is only the beginning. I can envision PPV NFL games within the next 10 years.

[JayPSU]

I don't blame the providers as much as I blame the big ten on this one. Providers are put in bad positions every time that someone dreams up some new network and wants to charge a crazy fee for it. I'm tired of these crazy little new sports networks. Unfortunately, I think that this is only the beginning. I can envision PPV NFL games within the next 10 years.

And yet, TWC as always, is the ONLY major programming provider that hasn't found a way to make a deal somehow with these networks. TWC is always last to provide new HD channels. TWC Central Ohio has ALWAYS provided the bare minimum and gotten away with it, but hopefully that comes to an end soon. If it doesn't, they're going to lose a lot of customers when U-Verse arrives.

[festivus]

Yep, I agree with that. That's why I left TWC for Dish last fall. Still no BTN on Dish either.

[JayPSU]

Yep, I agree with that. That's why I left TWC for Dish last fall. Still no BTN on Dish either.

Well, with the announcement from Dish this week that they added 8 RSNHD's, including ours, along with the fact that they are adding 7 national HD channels August 15th and more in September, I'm leaving Time Warner. We keep hearing they will add more as soon as bandwidth will allow, but they are banking on SDV to achieve this. With their new software having TONS of problems and deployment here nowhere in sight, I don't see things improving this year. I was going to wait for U-verse, but I've heard rumors they may not arrive until late December or early next year. I know Directv keeps boasting about their HD lineup coming up, but I foresee Dish matching them step for step. The one thing that makes me thing about Directv is they have our locals in HD. So at this point I'm deciding between those two. Anyone have any input on these two?

[mace]

Jay,

In my opinion Dish has already beaten Directv. I have had 35 HD channels for about a year. DirectTv keeps saying they will have 150 channels. When?

Right now Dish has the most HD available, without question. They have done a piss poor job of gloating about it too. I keep reading a lot of articles that praise Direct for the "future" and they all say that there is no one that offers much HD. I beg to differ. Almost 3 times the amount as anyone else, but yet no one seems to really know.

But, it is good news that us Dish subscribers will get to enjoy this it appears.

[Robbiee19]

DirecTV just had their new satellite launched and all the new HD ch will be turned on around the middle of Sept. The thing with DirecTV is they have new HD CH signed on to start broadcasting in Sept. I have the local HD ch from Directv and the PQ is equal to the OTA. But Directv and Dish are far better than TWC, so its pick who you think you will like in my opinion.

[festivus]

Outages are the main drawback for me with Dish. I've had my dish aimed 3, maybe 4 different times and I still lose my signal in moderate to heavy rain. Especially when trying to get a signal from the bird that provides the locals. Forget about it if there's a thunderstorm anywhere near. I had TWC for 5 years and I can't remember any outages. Thankfully the weather has been dry this year.

I've seen the STO and FSN HD channels on Dish but haven't seen any programming on them yet. Dish is supposed to give us HD locals soon as well.

[posty-mcpost]

Outages are the main drawback for me with Dish. I've had my dish aimed 3, maybe 4 different times and I still lose my signal in moderate to heavy rain. Especially when trying to get a signal from the bird that provides the locals. Forget about it if there's a thunderstorm anywhere near. I had TWC for 5 years and I can't remember any outages. Thankfully the weather has been dry this year.

I've seen the STO and FSN HD channels on Dish but haven't seen any programming on them yet. Dish is supposed to give us HD locals soon as well.
I rarely have weather outages. Had lots more with Directv but that could be due to any number of factors. STO HD and FSN HD have shown every game broadcast in HD since they went live. STO looks really really good. I haven't seen anything about Columbus HD LIL on Dish.

[festivus]

Little bit of rain in the area and my reception with Dish is gone. As of 10:00 tonight. But as you can see, my TW Roadrunner is working just fine.

[rossl]

Big Ten Network airs grievances with Time Warner Cable

Network, which will broadcast at least two OSU games this season, locked in dispute over fees, channel bundling.

By Kyle Nagel

Staff Writer

Thursday, July 19, 2007

Four weeks ago, Big Ten Conference Commissioner Jim Delany held a teleconference to discuss the upcoming launch of the Big Ten Network. That teleconference provided the first glance that negotiations with the nation's largest cable operators were becoming contentious.

Mark Silverman, the BTN president, said Wednesday that things have not improved.

"We fully expected to do this behind closed doors," Silverman said. "Comcast and Time Warner have decided to go public with commentary about our rate and our coverage, so we'll discuss this also."

The network, set to launch Aug. 30 as the first owned and operated by a Bowl Championship Series conference, has most notably met resistance from Time Warner Cable and Comcast. Even though the network has deals in place with AT&T, DirecTV and more than 70 smaller cable providers, area Ohio State fans who are Time Warner customers would not be able to see Buckeyes games broadcast on the network if the season started today.

There are two main issues in negotiations: First, the operators feel the network's monthly asking price of $1.10 per subscriber is too high. Second, they want to add the network on a digital tier bundled with other sports channels that can be purchased for a monthly fee. The BTN demands to be on the most basic package.

:eek:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/search/content/oh/story/sports/college/osu/2007/07/19/ddn071907bigtenside.html

[festivus]

I can't say that I'm surprised.

Anticipation is looming for upcoming fights over the inevitable "BCS Network" and the "March Madness Network". How about the "Ohio State Network"? Maybe the "Cincinnati Bengals Network". Imagine every team having their own network and nationwide cable and satellite providers having to negotiate a contract with all of them.

Man, I should have gone to school to be an attorney...

[Scott]

$1.10 per subscriber is ridiculous. I think ESPN is the highest--at around $2.00 per subscriber--but that includes 3-4 channels. NFL Network is only about $.70 per sub and at least they have SOME content to broadcast outside of football season.

I can totally understand TWs position--outside of football and basketball, what other content will the Big Ten Network offer? Softball? Baseball? Golf?

The BTN is trying to strong-arm providers by placing high fan-based teams on their network alone with the thinking that the outcry from fans for a game like OSU vs. Youngstown State not being broadcast for free, will push TW into a corner.

To further strengthen their approach, 1460 reported that the BTN will not allow their broadcast in commercial establishments--it will be blacked out. So, no games at the bars either.

Certainly Delany is to blame for this--but the Big Ten university presidents let it happen.

[festivus]

This type of thing only gets worse, never better. So if the bars are blacked out, what about the big screens like the one at the Hiney Gate for example? I would think that they are considered to be a bar, right? Could you imagine the uproar about that?

[Scott]

This type of thing only gets worse, never better. So if the bars are blacked out, what about the big screens like the one at the Hiney Gate for example? I would think that they are considered to be a bar, right? Could you imagine the uproar about that?

That was a question presented to 1460 by a caller--to which they did not have an answer. I guess the way it works is that if your install is considered commercial, not residential, it's a no-go. I'm not sure what provider places like Hineygate are using, but if it's a commercial address--I'm guessing black-out.

1460 had a whole segment dedicated to it on Tuesday or Wednesday--because one of their major sponsors is Time Warner, they were getting hammered. 1460 was defending TW, rightfully so in my opinion. I'll see if they have a link to a podcast of the segment.

[Robbiee19]

$1.10 per subscriber is ridiculous. I think ESPN is the highest--at around $2.00 per subscriber--but that includes 3-4 channels. NFL Network is only about $.70 per sub and at least they have SOME content to broadcast outside of football season.

I can totally understand TWs position--outside of football and basketball, what other content will the Big Ten Network offer? Softball? Baseball? Golf?

The BTN is trying to strong-arm providers by placing high fan-based teams on their network alone with the thinking that the outcry from fans for a game like OSU vs. Youngstown State not being broadcast for free, will push TW into a corner.

To further strengthen their approach, 1460 reported that the BTN will not allow their broadcast in commercial establishments--it will be blacked out. So, no games at the bars either.

Certainly Delany is to blame for this--but the Big Ten university presidents let it happen.Scott,

I totally agree with you!! I am sick to death of these special networks now and like festivus said its only going to get worse. I feel sorry for the TW subs.

[FlyingJ]

Off base on this one Scott. We are talking about a list of Big Ten Games here.
ABC gets the first choice, then comes ESPn with ESPN and ESPN 2, then ESPNU then comes the next tier which the BTN will show (all the rest). These are "in addition games", and every provider has the chance to carry the network for whatever the network is charging. Their decision, DirecTV and a handfull of Cable Cos have stepped up to the plate. Dish and most major Cable Cos have not, because they want to put it into a paid sports tier. BTN says, no, not gonna happen, and I for one don't bame them. This is business and the Big 10 is doing what they should. Youngstown state geme not going to be on ABC and sounds like you are blaming the BIg10 and ESPN for not wanting that game over the others. Just not the facts. And JayPSU, you want to see the first couple of Penn State games on TV, DirecTV is once again the answer. I'm just saying.............

[aaronod]

If the BTN does go on the digital sports tier is that the tier that has the NFL Network and all those FSwhatever channels? If so that would be cool with me because I just got Insight to give me those channels and they cut my monthly bill by a couple of bucks because I threatened them that I was leaving them for WOW.

Basically, I was paying over $50 for basic digital cable when I saw that new customers were paying something like $35. Anyway, they added all those digital sports channels and BBC America abd encore and all that other stuff for less than what I was paying before hand.

If anyone else feels like they are getting the shaft they should call and complain and get a better deal. If you can find a better deal wih someone else you should be able to squeeze the same or better out of your current company by threatening to leave them.

P.S. Insight even sent me a letter today making sure everything was up to my standards. It is amazing what one little phone call can do

[festivus]

Come on guys, can't you see where this is taking us? Do we really need a Big Ten Network? We used to be able to see these games when wbns would pick up the espn plus feed. Now most of us can't see them. That's the bottom line.

Screw the big ten and the big ten network. Their greed is immeasurable. If they think that they can hold the cable companies hostage with this I think they're wrong. And I hope that the providers simply let their little network go bankrupt so that we can go back to the way it was in the past. No additional $1.10 and still able to see the games. Sounds like a better deal to me.

Do you guys really want this type of thing? A specialty network for every game that isn't picked up by the major networks? A specialty network for every conference or for every sport? (i.e. The NFL Network) How high would you like for your bill to go?

[Robbiee19]

festivs,

No I don't!

[festivus]

Oh yeah Robbiee19, I know that you agree with me. You and Scott. I guess that I was directing my question more toward FlyingJ.

I do wonder though, how does DirectTV always manage to strike a deal with these networks?

I'll have a new 18 month commitment with Dish starting now with my new 622. After that, I'll seriously consider Direct TV.

[posty-mcpost]

This is from a guy on Satguys named flyingsquirrel with 5 posts:
According to a source at a Big Ten school, the admins were told that Dish is more likely to be on board at launch than Comcast and some other Cable systems. In fact, they were considered "probable" along with some others.

Apparently, BTN would be part of AT200 in Big Ten States (Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Pa.) and would be located in the 150s.

Everywhere else it would be in the RSN package and be in the 400s.

Now it's down to dollars, supposedly.

BTN would like to get this done soon so that Dish would withdraw its petition to the FCC to have BTN declared an RSN. Having BTN declared an RSN would change the balance of negotiations.

[jchiso]

Do you guys really want this type of thing? A specialty network for every game that isn't picked up by the major networks? A specialty network for every conference or for every sport? (i.e. The NFL Network) How high would you like for your bill to go?

I would not want this for all fare, but I wish I could buy sports network- specific packages. I hate the fact that even if you buy Extra Innings and Center Ice you are at the mercy of the provider for which feed you receive. I'd like to watch Mets games on SportsNet New York, and Rangers games on MSG, but sometimes games (both home and road) are blacked out on them, sometimes not. Whenever I capture games for later viewing I have to do so on multiple channels, just to be sure.

That's why NFL Sunday Ticket is the absolute joy that it is.

Of course, I would want the HD versions of these channels...

[aaronod]

Buckeye fans are willing to pay a price to see the games, but I don't think they are willing to pay a ransom fee. If the BTN isn't on here in Columbus by the time football season starts I'm sure the college crowd will be streaming it online on some P2P site. The cable company would be smart to put it on to at least get some money out of the situation.

[FlyingJ]

To answer your questions Festivus, well, yes. I kind of do. Years ago I pretty much would have paid anything to see my Phillies, Eagles and Penn State Games. Now with these so called evil changes I am able to do just that. I, unlike others, don't feel that the price is that steep. I just compare it to going to 3 Phillies games with my family 3 weeks ago. Forget the travel and all that, 30 per ticket (5), some food and drinks, not even including anything bought, $200, per game, $600. I have enjoyed probably 100 of the 110 Phils games this year at home, for the MLB EI subscription rate. So damn, I am a happy camper. Same goes for the NFL, BTN, bring it on. As I have stated several times in the past. If it is sports you want than DirecTV is where it is at. If it is HD sports you want than it is a complete no-brainer to go with D*. I don't work for them or have anything to do with them except that I am a happy sub. All baseball games on MLB EI next year in HD!, yup, I like it!

[festivus]

The latest news on this:

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2007/08/21/directv.html

I think that someone else mentioned this, but I find it more than interesting, perhaps a great marketing ploy, maybe corrupt, that:

Newscorp owns Fox
Fox owns 49% of the BTN
Newscorp is part owner of DirectTV
DirectTV is just about the only provider of the BTN because of the ridiculous, unprecedented fees

I wouldn't even think of giving this corrupt machine a penny of my money. I'll stick with the providers that aren't in bed with this tangled mess. IMO the people switching to DirectTV because of the BTN are just feeding the monster. Of course, I now wish that I had D* instead of E* But I wouldn't switch now just to get BTN. Especially after learning the facts of BTN's proposal. I do understand that fans want to see the games. This whole thing is a big mess.

[festivus]

Yikes. This doesn't sound good for Dish customers, like me.

http://www.primenewswire.com/newsroom/news.html?d=125560

[zelig2]

Sounds like the nail in the coffin for BTN on Dish. Hopefully no one other than D* will sign up for BTN causing them to go under.

[posty-mcpost]

I read it more as Dish trying to gain leverage.

[zelig2]

Well it doesn't seem like they're going to have anything in place by next weekend. BTN I think only has the first two OSU games. After that they'll be on all the normal channels and at that point no one will care about BTN.

[posty-mcpost]

People will care when basketball season rolls around. And none of the providers will have anymore leverage at that time.

[festivus]

I've been thinking about this. And I need to stop doing it because it drives me nuts. It's what happens when one entity begins to own a large portion of the communications media. Sure, it's a great marketing move by newscorp, fox, btn and D* to do this. If I were in their position I would probably do the same. But it just seems unfair to me. A provider like TWC is placed in a horrible position. If they cave to the demands, they must raise rates and customers leave. If they hold their position, people leave for D*. And believe me, I'm no fan of TWC. I really see their position in this negotiation though. That's why I hope they, Comcast and E* hold firm and let the BTN go under. I'll live if I don't get to see OSU play Akron. Basketball season will be a little tougher.

Also, why $1.10 in big ten states like ohio but $.10 in other states? Screw that. For chess matches when april 08 rolls around? Field hockey? I don't think so. $1.10 is absolutely nuts.

[jpdublin]

Just got this e-mail, since I have both Directv and Time Warner (don't ask me why)...

Dear Time Warner Cable Customer,

Ohio State will soon kick off its football season, and we know many of you will be looking for the opening games. The first two OSU games are scheduled to be carried by the Big Ten Network, a new cable channel that isn’t available on Time Warner Cable yet.
We wanted to let you know that we are negotiating with the Big Ten Network and we have reserved a channel for it in our line-up. We want to reach an agreement that is fair to both you and the Big Ten Network.
The Big Ten Network will be carrying football and basketball games previously made available to local broadcasters, along with NCAA-sponsored sports, and 660 hours of non-sports programming from the 11 Big Ten schools.
Here’s where we stand on bringing you this programming:

Time Warner Cable would like to make Big Ten Network programming available to our customers who want it. We know that some of the games are important to a segment of our customers.
Because this programming is so highly priced, we want to make it available as part of a separate sports package to those who want it – without increasing the cost for everyone. The Big Ten Network will not allow us to deliver the network on these terms because it insists that all customers – including those uninterested in its programming – must pay.
The Big Ten Network has said publicly that it wants $1.10 per customer per month for cable companies to bring you Big Ten Network programming in Ohio. At this rate, the Big Ten Network stands to make $237 million each year from cable customers in the Big Ten states alone. Outside the eight-state Big Ten region, Big Ten fans are being asked to pay far less for the same programming – only 10 cents per month per customer. That means an avid Ohio State fan who happens to live in West Virginia pays only $.10 per month while those of us living in Ohio are being asked to pay $1.10 per month. It’s just not fair.
Only one major video provider has reached an agreement with Big Ten Network, a company that also owns 49% of the Big Ten Network.
At this point, Big Ten Network has announced about half of the football games that they will air in the upcoming season. Of those games, not one involves a Big Ten Conference match-up involving Ohio State. In addition, at most, fans of one university will miss a few football games that ABC and ESPN do not consider key match-ups.
These games used to be available on broadcast or other more widely distributed networks, but the Big Ten withdrew them in order to try to make more money not only from its fans – but from cable customers who are not fans or even interested in sports. These games were available last year locally without the Big Ten seeking an additional fee from viewers. This year, the Big Ten Conference wants fans to pay not only for access to these local games, but other games that hold little or no local interest.
We sincerely hope this situation can be resolved quickly so that our customers who want to see Ohio State games will be able to view them. In the meantime, you’ll still be able to see the majority of Ohio State’s games on channels you already receive such as ABC, ESPN and ESPN2.
For more information, and updates on the negotiations, please check our Web site: www.twcmidohio.com.
Sincerely,
Rhonda Fraas
President
Time Warner Cable Mid-Ohio Division

[zelig2]

All this BTN stuff reminds me of when Sinclair was sticking it to Time Warner for the local ABC and FOX channels. All of this smells of a monopoly when you have D* owning a large interest in BTN. Do they only own 49% so they can claim they don't own a majority?

[festivus]

I agree with your assessment, zelig2. And if I have to listen to this Mark Silverman idiot give more lame excuses for the BTN I'm going to throw up.

It is definitely is a monopoly-type situation with the same company (Newscorp/Fox) having partial ownership of both BTN and D*. It's no coincidence that D* is the only major provider having struck a deal with BTN. I wonder what D* is paying BTN? But then again since they're in bed together I guess it really doesn't matter.

May TWC, E* and Comcast hold firm and BTN RIP soon.

[rossl]

It's really sad that greed rules over the Big Ten schools. It's ironic that I, a sports fan who watches practically nothing else on TV, wants the Big Ten Network to die.
I am the target audience for the BTN. I am the one who would watch it the most.

But no...

Due to the idiotic greed of the Big Ten, I am not going to see it.

College sports has historically gained a big fan base by broadcasting over free TV and getting sponsors to foot the bill. Now the Big Ten is alienating their fan base. I hope you chumps lose millions. And learn a lesson.

[Robbiee19]

I have D* but I don't like this at all. Our networks were able to carry the games now they are left out in the cold except for the big games. Plus come BB I think we are goiing to lose alot of the early season games.

[FlyingJ]

Your a rare one Robbie. So kudos to you. I for one have no problem with the BTN, I am glad I have D* and that they made a deal, If I had E* I wouldn't be pissed off at anyone but E*. I suppose it was the NFL's fault that E* didn't get ST? Face it boys, the cable co's and E* sometimes just don't want to put the money up. Enjoy the radio telecasts.

[festivus]

FlyingJ, I respectfully disagree. D* is in bed with Fox and BTN. That's how they got the deal done. Look at the facts around the ownership situation. It's pretty plain to me that this is a ploy to 1) Force other providers to pay a ridiculous fee for the BTN and therefore cause a rate increase, or 2) Push consumers to D*. This is what happens when one parent company owns too much of the industry. What do providers pay for espnu, a comparable network? Isn't is something like $.10 or $.20 per month per subscriber? What makes you think that $1.10 is fair? I don't blame E* at all for this. I don't blame Comcast or TWC either. It's Fox's greed that I blame. The cost of this network should $.25 tops.

Like MLB, I'm ready to just forget about CFB over this mess. So no, I won't be listening to it on the radio. Screw the BTN, the Big Ten, and Fox. If they want to play this way, fine. They'll just lose fans.

[Scott]

Doesn't DirecTV own like a 49% share of the BTN. I seem to remember reading that somewhere (possibly in this thread :D). Speaking of DirecTV, being 4 days out from game 1, does any know if the BTN is going to be part of the standard lineup, or will one have to purchase the sports package (like with ESPNU)? Just curious, because it has not shown up in my channel lineup as of yet.

[festivus]

From an online article:

DirecTV is the largest signal provider that offers the network’s [BTN] content. DirecTV’s partial owner, News Corp., is the parent company of Fox Cable Networks, which owns a 49 percent stake in the Big Ten Network.

Like I said before, this whole situation smells of greed at the expense of the fans.

[jchiso]

Time Warner repeatedly takes this path when faced with adding programming. DirecTV has consistently outperformed them in this area. TimeWarner always points to increased rights fees but never mentions that they could actually increase their subscriber base by adding additional programming. They never consider that they could (and should) work to sell advertising for these additional channels to offset the costs. For some reason they feel a sense of entitlement to their established rates; that their margins should never be reduced and their spend plans remain intact. Well, I would like to be able to buy a gallon of gas for $1.29, but like most of us, I have adapted.

Finally, their assertion that the Big Ten Network is 49% owned by "one provider", they fail to mention that they, themselves own 100% (one hunder percent) of HBO, Cinemax, CNN, TNT, TBS, Cartoon Network, Boomernag, Turner Classic Movies, etc., so their cries of a monopolistic threat fall on less-than-sympathetic ears.

I have nothing against TimeWarner or their business plan (I have basic cable and broadband through TWC in addition to my DirecTV subscriptions) but they should be more straight in their dealings with customers regarding potential lineup expansions.

That being said, I can't imagine watching any of the Big Ten Network. I've watched almost no CSTV or ESPNU, so I don't foresee an occasion when I'd be apt to tune to the BTN to watch Iowa v. Wisconsin men's gymnastics...

[rossl]

Only one major video provider has reached an agreement with Big Ten Network, a company that also owns 49% of the Big Ten Network.



Finally, their assertion that the Big Ten Network is 49% owned by "one provider", they fail to mention that they, themselves own 100% (one hunder percent) of HBO, Cinemax, CNN, TNT, TBS, Cartoon Network, Boomernag, Turner Classic Movies, etc., so their cries of a monopolistic threat fall on less-than-sympathetic ears.


Who owns HBO or Cinemax is immaterial to this argument. Nobody is trying to force HBO onto basic cable and make everybody in the world pay for it.

In defense of TW, they are not crying of a monopolistic threat. They are merely pointing out that Dish is in bed with the BTN, and no other provider has that incentive to get in bed with them.

In fact there is a disincentive. None of the providers wants to pay a big fee to the owner of a direct competitor.

That sounds to me like a deal will not happen unless the BTN caves in and lowers the price.

The cable companies also have inertia. There are thousands of homes already wired for cable. The dish is at a disadvantage to me because of the large trees in the area. The dish would probably have to go up on the peak of the roof to get good exposure to the south. The wife vetos that possibility. Adding 5 runs of RG6 from the peak of the roof to the basement is not helping the scenario.

Anyway, I just looked at the Dish Network site and they are showing the BTN in hi-def as part of the September upgrade. That tells me the first two Buckeye games will only be in 4:3 low-def.

I would rather listen to the radio. :D

Two low def Buckeye games and a lot of Indiana-Northwestern womens volleyball. I'll pass on the BTN.


I have nothing against TimeWarner or their business plan (I have basic cable and broadband through TWC in addition to my DirecTV subscriptions) but they should be more straight in their dealings with customers regarding potential lineup expansions.


I thought the email quoted by jpdublin was a straight response to the potential lineup expansion.

[Scott]

In defense of TW, they are not crying of a monopolistic threat. They are merely pointing out that DirecTV is in bed with the BTN, and no other provider has that incentive to get in bed with them.

FYP :D

[rossl]

OK, I stand corrected. I looked at the Dish Net and the Direct TV web sites. :D It is DirectTV who is the bad guy

[posty-mcpost]

Doesn't DirecTV own like a 49% share of the BTN. I seem to remember reading that somewhere (possibly in this thread :D). Speaking of DirecTV, being 4 days out from game 1, does any know if the BTN is going to be part of the standard lineup, or will one have to purchase the sports package (like with ESPNU)? Just curious, because it has not shown up in my channel lineup as of yet.

No sports package. It will be on channel 220 AFAIK.

[festivus]

I agree with you, Rossl. TWC may own these other stations but they're not on the basic tier and I'm sure they don't cost other providers 5 or even 10 times that of similar channels. The $1.10 cost for every subscriber is just insane. And this station will sell advertising for additional revenue, unlike HBO, Cinemax, etc.

And yeah, like someone else noted, TWC does take a hard line with negotiations. But I think that their position is warranted here. And besides, no other major provider has been able to strike a deal either. Except of course for D*. If it TWC (or any other big provider) were the sole holdout, then I could place some blame on them.

May the Big Ten Network die a swift death...

[rossl]

At the Columbus Dispatch web site:

Today's sports poll: Who's the real culprit in the Big Ten vs. cable saga?

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2007/08/29/sportspoll.html?sid=101

[jpdublin]

I have seen 4 Directv trucks doing installs this week on my street. I wonder how much business that Directv picked up in Columbus this week?

[festivus]

Insight has apparently stuck a deal with the mafia, errrr, BTN. I wonder how much they agreed to pay per subscriber...

[Scott]

Insight has apparently stuck a deal with the mafia, errrr, BTN. I wonder how much they agreed to pay per subscriber...

Yup...

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/29/ap4066051.html

[rossl]

I wonder how much they agreed to pay per subscriber...


A snip from the Dispatch web site:
~~~
Insight did not make available financial terms of its deal, but the network will be part of the "Classic" lineup. Insight spokesman Bob Lau acknowledged that the monthly rate for that service, which rose $2.75 this year to $44.75, likely will increase again, probably in January.

"We typically try to only touch our subscribers once a year and catch up on rates," Lau said. "Not tomorrow, but will (the Big Ten Network) be part of the next rate increase? I think you can be pretty certain on that."
~~~

:eek:

~~~
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2007/08/30/BTN_30_Insight.rtf.ART_ART_08-30-07_A1_447OMGA.html?sid=101

[festivus]

Yep. Imagine that. Games that were free on ch 10 last year will cost subscribers an increased fee this year. I wonder what the "classic" lineup includes?

So now people will be mad that their insight rates are going up again. Insight was faced with a lose/lose here and they chose. Educated consumers will realize that the increase is at least in large part due to the greed of the BTN.

[vman41]

All this wrangling over fees probably won't help the most annoying aspect of TV coverage: TV timeouts. It may even make it worse.

I go to the football games, and the timeouts really slow the game down.

[festivus]

vman41, I could not agree more! A CFB game should not take 3 1/2 or 4 hours. It's ridiculous. They're raking in all of this money with the tv timeouts and the ad fees. And that's not enough. They still need to create a network to bring in even more money. And charge $62.50 for each seat at the game. And OSU is screwing fans out of the Wisconsin game in exchange for seats at the YSU game. Happened to a friend of mine. Think they're giving those seats to bigger, corporate donors??

I'm seriously considering giving up being a CFB fan. At least the NFL admits that they are a business. And NFL games are barely over 3 hours long, even with TV timeouts.

[honavery]

Personally, my college football viewing experience Saturday won't be all that affected by whether or not I can see the Ohio State-Youngstown State game. I can imagine, however, that it's a slightly more pressing concern for all those Buckeyes fans in Ohio, who, like millions of others around the country this weekend, can't wait to see their team in action for the first time this season.

Read more. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/stewart_mandel/08/30/search.bigtennetwork/index.html?eref=si_topstories)

[festivus]

Good article. But no mention of the $1.10/month/subscriber fee...

[rossl]

Iowa State isn't even in the Big Ten !!!!
:mad:

snip from article at the Dispatch web site:
~~~~~
The tiff touched another segment of fans in Iowa yesterday when the state's largest cable provider, Mediacom, announced that Fox Cable Networks had denied Mediacom's request to televise last night's game between Iowa State and Kent State because Mediacom has not agreed to terms with the Big Ten Network. Fox Cable Networks owns 49 percent of the Big Ten Network.

Mediacom noted that Fox had permitted Mediacom to televise Iowa State's opener last season. Iowa State is a member of the Big 12 Conference.

"Fox is utilizing deplorable, anti-competitive tactics," Mediacom said in a statement. "Cyclone fans should not be used as pawns in the Big Ten Network negotiations."

Fox responded with a statement that disputed it was "anti-competitive" but did not address the claim that it used Iowa State fans as "pawns" in the negotiations.
~~~~~

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/football/stories/2007/08/31/big_ten31.ART_ART_08-31-07_C3_367P1OG.html?sid=101

[scgalena]

For anyone interested, the OSU game on BTN tomorrow will be in 720P leaving the truck.

The new artificial grass is a little darker in color than the real grass was but nice for HD. Also, you'll see the new scarlet letters are pretty hard to miss.

[jchiso]

Who owns HBO or Cinemax is immaterial to this argument. Nobody is trying to force HBO onto basic cable and make everybody in the world pay for it...
It's relevant in that every time they increase fees for any of these networks several hundred providers are similarly adversely affected.

My confusion with their (oft-repeated) approach is that they insist on pursuing a path of maintaining their established margins after a point at which they are no longer valid. Further, they presume that their revenue stream will remain intact even if they fail to match the programming of other providers. How many $45, $95 or $125-a-month customers are they willing to surrender to avoid a $1.10 per month cost increase?

[nolberg]

Anyone know what channel the game will be on in Hi def on Directv? I can't seem to find it in the guide with the HD logo on it.

[Scott]

Anyone know what channel the game will be on in Hi def on Directv? I can't seem to find it in the guide with the HD logo on it.

I'd like to know that as well. I haven't seen anything about the BTN being broadcast in HD on D*

[Robbiee19]

No HD today guys. D* has stated that HD will be in abound 2 weeks when D10 start's to broadcast all thew new HD CHs. Game for the buckeyes will be on CH 218.

[FlyingJ]

We will have it on by the week 3 games. But I'm not complaining, I watched my Nittany Lions, caught the Bucks game and the Michigan fiasco, it was all pretty damn good. Oh and Festivus, if you see this, there were actually a lot less TV timeouts on the BTN games than the others, probably couldn't sell the time yet. And, I am in no hurry, I don't look at the clock when watching my favorite teams. that's why baseball is so great, nooooo clock!. Relax!!

[jchiso]

... there were actually a lot less TV timeouts on the BTN games than the others, probably couldn't sell the time yet.

I noticed that the OSU and PSU games both ended really early. I thought they had switched out of those games to the Michigan game but then realized those were final scores that were posted. Unfortunately, the Tenn v. Cal game went past midnight...

[vman41]

I noticed that the OSU and PSU games both ended really early. I thought they had switched out of those games to the Michigan game but then realized those were final scores that were posted. Unfortunately, the Tenn v. Cal game went past midnight...
From the stands, I didn't notice a diminution of TV timeouts. The game would have ended before 3:00 if that guy hadn't spent so much time standing on the 20. My fantasy is to buy out all the TVTOs and have that guy stand in a cage on the sidelines the whole game.

Both of Tressel's timeouts were 30-second timeouts, is that a new option this year.

[jon_ad]

Satelliteguys just announced that BTN is now available on Dish

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/106376-dish-launches-big-10-network.html

[posty-mcpost]

DISH Network will broadcast two games in high-definition Saturday on Channel 9467, including Akron @ Ohio State (12:00 p.m. ET) and Syracuse @ Iowa (8:00 p.m. ET), and officially launch the HD simulcast of the Big Ten Network the following week.

http://www.bigtennetwork.com/corporate/PR090607.asp

[MeHDTV]

The HD games were supposed to be Direc exclusive and now Dish has them. Pretty funny in my book!

[festivus]

Unbelievable. I didn't think that the deal would get done. I have to confess that I'll probably watch the game now. That is, if rain fade doesn't disrupt my signal.

[FlyingJ]

The HD games were supposed to be Direc exclusive and now Dish has them. Pretty funny in my book!

Never suppose to be exclusive, where did you see that?? Oh, one of those E* guys that likes to think he he has the better deal hugh??

[festivus]

Wow, you're angry today, FlyingJ. Worried about the Notre Dame game tomorrow? I saw that ND is starting Clausen at QB. I still think that PSU will roll.

Sorry everyone, didn't mean to hijack the thread, so I'll get back to the topic. Yeah, I didn't think that D* had exclusive rights to BTNHD. Now, I had thought that D* did have exclusive rights on a decent price for carrying the BTN. But it looks now like BTN might be caving in a bit. This had become a PR nightmare for them.

[FlyingJ]

I don't know, it ended up where the BTN wanted it. Seems to me they accomplished what they wanted too. Now with cable, I am not certain who loses. As I stated before, when Hoops comes around, all hell will break loose again with the cable cos.

[festivus]

Yeah, I agree there. With football the btn is just getting the lower tier games. With basketball they'll be getting some of the good stuff.

[MeHDTV]

Never suppose to be exclusive, where did you see that?? Oh, one of those E* guys that likes to think he he has the better deal hugh??

This weekend's games were supposed to be Direc exclusive. You should know I'm in Denver right now.

[scgalena]

MeHDTV, I figure you are probably at CEDIA 2007. Please be sure to stop by and chat with the folks at the Exceptional Innovation booth while you are out there. My son is the tall one.

[Clint]

Big 10 net is now on Dish Network Channels 439 thru 443.

Clint

[MeHDTV]

Will do scgalena.

[festivus]

BTN in HD on Dish? I found it on ch 439, but no HD channel. Did I miss it somehow? Anyone else find it on an HD channel?

Update: It is apparently on 9467 as Posty posted. My search didn't find it. 9467 is normally reserved for HDPPV. Looks like that channel is off air from 11-12 today. I guess that Dish didn't have time to set up a permanent home for BTN HD yet.

[posty-mcpost]

BTN HD and HD alt feeds will be available by next weekend.

[FlyingJ]

This weekend's games were supposed to be Direc exclusive. You should know I'm in Denver right now.

No disrespect man, but, never ever suppose to be exclusive. There are a handful of cable cos and others that had the feeds from the start. So you could be sitting just about anywhere and that wouldn't change the fact.

[rlw]

Did anyone else notice how terrible the B10 production values were? I was flipping between the WVU-Marshall "Coal Bowl" on ESPN2HD and the OSU-Akron game in SD on DirecTV. It seemed that most of the time, when I'd flip into the B10 channel, there was a commercial. The video looked like something you'd see for a high school football game, and the announcers sounded like HS football announcers.

The "Coal Bowl" on ESPN2HD wasn't that much better -- the image was washed out, the announcer was terrible (couldn't get players' names right, kept saying that "...more than 20,000 people are jam packed into this stadium..." -- Joan Edwards stadium holds ~38k -- there were > 40k there, etc.).

Anyone else have the same impression?

RLW

[posty-mcpost]

Dish turned on the BTN HD feed today and the alt channels. They are at 9500-9504 and mapped down to 439-443.

[TvPat]

This list is from the Dispatch a couple of weeks ago.

Cable channel rates per customer:
3.26 ESPN
1.92 Fox Sports Net
1.10 Big Ten Network
0.91 TNT
0.83 Disney Channel
0.80 NFL Network
0.63 Fox College Sports
0.50 USA
0.46 ESPN2
0.46 CNN
0.44 TBS
0.43 Nickelodeon
0.36 NBA TV
0.36 fX
0.33 Fox News
0.31 Discovery
0.30 MTV
0.27 Sundance
0.27 Tennis Channel
0.27 CNBC

3.26 for ESPN seems ridiculous, but you cannot have a cable company without ESPN. They have twice as much sports as anyone else. 0.46 for ESPN2 seems like a bargain, but it is probably a package deal with ESPN. Fox Sports Net is 1.92, but they have almost every Reds, Blue Jackets, and Cavaliers game, along with almost as much college football and basketball as the Big Ten Network. I am surprised that TNT is 0.91. 0.80 for the NFL Network seems ridiculous. Fox College Sports, NBA TV, and the Tennis Channel are on sports tiers, which is the biggest sticking point in the negotiations.

Here is something else you must consider when comparing the Big Ten Network with other sports networks. ESPN, ESPN2, and Fox Sports Net show top tier games, while the Big Ten Network shows the leftovers that the others don't want. That makes me think that 1.10 per subscriber is a bit high.

You cannot even comare the Big Ten Network to the non-sports channels, because sports channels tend to command 3 to 4 times the rate for similar ratings.

I do believe the Big Ten Network belongs on basic cable in local Big Ten markets such as Columbus, Chicago, Madison, and Minneapolis. I cannot quite justify it being on basic cable in the entire state. For example, interest in Big Ten sports in Cincinnati is not even half of what it is here in Columbus.

[FlyingJ]

You are only talking about football. Once again, try to think of the big picture. Hoops is huge!!!

[rossl]

Big Ten, big cable battle angers fans
http://www.daytondailynews.com/search/content/oh/story/sports/college/osu/2007/09/14/ddn091407btn.html

By Kyle Nagel
Staff Writer
Friday, September 14, 2007

In the late 1970s, Tony Taylor worked for Time Warner Cable when the provider debuted its new interactive service called Cube. With it, the company allowed patrons to vote in polls and otherwise make their voices immediately heard.

Funny now, Taylor said, that he and other Time Warner customers are having trouble making their own choices.

As the three-week-old Big Ten Network and the country's major cable companies have stalled their negotiations to provide the network, fans throughout the eight Big Ten states have missed football games. They aren't happy.

"Personally, I'm not going to be held hostage," said Taylor, a 53-year-old Springfield resident. "I'll just ignore you."

Taylor was one of many area residents who responded to a Dayton Daily News request for opinions about the BTN, founded by the Big Ten Conference to exclusively broadcast games and provide other conference-specific content. A majority of responders placed blame on the conference, which has failed to reach agreements with Comcast and Time Warner as well as other operators in the Big Ten states. About seven of every 10 residents in the Big Ten states are still without the network.

"I'm a college football fan and there are plenty of games to watch all day Saturday afternoon and evening on TV without paying extra to watch the Big Ten Network," Ed Fielak said in an e-mail response. "I feel strongly that Time Warner (the monopoly that it is) should not give in to the Big Ten Network."


~~~

Readers weigh in on Time Warner and the Big Ten Network
http://www.daytondailynews.com/search/content/oh/story/opinions/editorial/2007/09/07/ddn090807letters.html

Saturday, September 08, 2007

Satellite starting to look pretty good

One might ask why the Big Ten Network is insistent on being carried on the basic tier of programming. The ratings that determine the cost of commercial time are based upon a simple cost-per-thousand viewers. All advertiser-supported networks on the standard cable tier create millions more dollars of ad revenue with the numbers that basic cable delivers, versus those on the premium level.

Why would Time Warner fight giving up a basic cable channel and $1.10 per subscriber per month to the network? Because the ratings for the Big Ten Network will be very weak except on the weekend, and the sought-after demographic of men 18-49 will not be watching the other five days the local cable franchise has to sell local advertising.

[Robbiee19]

I tell you what. I have a feeling whats going to heppen. The BTN with reach agreements with all the cable companies except TW and watch from there TW will still give everyone the same old song dance about it. Its TW MOS. Everyone is raking the BTN over the coals, but it takes two to dance and TW always is the last one to sign on to anything new.

[vman41]

You are only talking about football. Once again, try to think of the big picture. Hoops is huge!!!

The big bucks are in football, hoops is a sideshow in comparison.

[FlyingJ]

The big bucks are in football, hoops is a sideshow in comparison.

Not in numbers of games, evenings of use. No one is thinking about it yet, I say the stink will rise again in a couple of months when hoops starts up.

[Gimpy McFarlan]

Not in numbers of games, evenings of use. No one is thinking about it yet, I say the stink will rise again in a couple of months when hoops starts up.

Agreed. I wonder if the BTN will be the only place Big Ten BBall tourny will be shown? Probably will... :twisted:

[festivus]

I must admit that the E* BTN broadcasts are awesome. I was able to pick from 3 (I think) different BTN noon games, all in HD. Makes me even more angry at CBS for not being able to air all NFL games in HD.

[zelig2]

I watched a girls soccer game this weekend on BTN that was in HD. I didn't think I'd ever watch the channel but if they have lots of Big10 HD sports content I'll likely tune in from time to time.

[posty-mcpost]

Girls volleyball was in HD tonight.

[festivus]

Nice. 'nuff said...

[zelig2]

I also watched the volleyball stuff last night. Non-football/basketball college stuff in HD is fantastic.

[festivus]

Man, lots of irate people this week about not getting to see OSU/Wisconsin this Saturday. It's looking more and more like TWC is going to have to cave in to the BTN demands or lose all kinds of customers to DirectTV and to Dish.

[Robbiee19]

Man, lots of irate people this week about not getting to see OSU/Wisconsin this Saturday. It's looking more and more like TWC is going to have to cave in to the BTN demands or lose all kinds of customers to DirectTV and to Dish.My brother just switched to DirecTV last weekend because of the BTN problem.

[scgalena]

BTN will be broadcasting OSU basketball, field hockey and football over the next four days. All in HD.

[festivus]

Yeah, that's one thing that the BTN adds to the experience, HD. Very different from watching a Bucks game via an "ESPN plus" SD feed.

[rossl]

I sent another email to WOW customer service asking them to hurry up with the HD feed on BigTen Network.

:p

[Captain_Rob]

I also submited the following request via WOW's website:

Any chance you can activate the HD feed of the Big Ten Network for this Saturday's OSU game at 12:00 PM? If nothing else, I would think you could temporarily replace the worthless FSNHD Promo on Ch 220, or STOHD on Ch 221, neither of which show anything scheduled.

[rossl]

WOW sent me back an email saying to use this link for a channel request:

http://www1.wowway.com/customer/customer.aspx?ConIdent=25&RCView=CAREE

Please make sure to choose the channel request in the drop down box.

[Captain_Rob]

WOW sent me back an email saying to use this link for a channel request:

http://www1.wowway.com/customer/customer.aspx?ConIdent=25&RCView=CAREE

Please make sure to choose the channel request in the drop down box.

That's the link I used. Let's hammer them WOW users!

[Captain_Rob]

BTN-HD is now on WOW on channel 219

Go Bucks!

[posty-mcpost]

BTN-HD is now on WOW on channel 219

Go Bucks!

Awesome news. Congrats WOWies.

[rossl]

BTN-HD is now on WOW on channel 219

Go Bucks!

Kewl ! :D

[rossl]

yea! hoops in HD on BTN on WOW channel 219

earlier we had Michigan and Ferris State

now we have Purdue and Indy

Buckeye football on Saturday

I'm happier than a pig in $#!+