PC Hard Drive Question

[festivus]

Since I figured that we have some good PC folks out there I thought that I would pose this question. Off topic but worth a shot.

I put a second hard drive into my secondary PC some time ago. 100 gig. Only one partition. Made it a slave to the 5 gig master. That was a mistake. I continually run out of space on the master even though I've cleaned it up as best I can. XP and office take up so much space.

So, I would like to partition the 100 gig slave, copy the files from the master to the slave, then swap the drives. Make the 100 gig drive the master, the 5 gig the slave.

Anyone else ever partition an existing drive? How about copy entire operating systems?

I found a link about this but was wondering if it can really work:

http://www.pcmech.com/show/harddrive/52/

Also, any recommended free software out there that can do the partitioning?

[bullwinkle]

First, download Hiren's BootCD and burn the .iso image to CD using Nero or whatever burning software you have installed.

http://maxt.dk/archives/2006/11/09/hirens-bootcd-86/

Set up your computer to boot from CD and then launch the CD you just made. Run Acronis Disk Director or Partition Magic and partition the 100GB HDD. I suggest making the first partition 20 to 25GB to hold Windows. This has to be a primary partition, has to be marked "active", and should be empty. Whatever is left will become the second primary partition and should now hold ALL the data that was originally on the drive.

Restart and boot the CD again and run either Norton Ghost or Acronis True Image and clone the 5GB drive to the first primary partition on the 100GB drive.

Now the first partition on the 100GB drive has your operating system from the 5GB drive and should be bootable. Sll you need to do is physically flop the drives on the cable and make sure the jumpers are correct.

Boot Windows.

[snodgrass23]

Agreed with Bullwinkle, make an image of your current main drive and then image the larger drive. The one issue is I assume you have data on your 100gig, which means that would need to be backed up because that drive will be wiped during the process.

[bullwinkle]

The one issue is I assume you have data on your 100gig, which means that would need to be backed up because that drive will be wiped during the process.

Not really. Creating or resizing existing partitions with either Acronis Disk Director or Partition Magic is non-destructive if done correctly You only lose data when you format and there is no need here -- the drive is already formatted.

I guess I didn't make it clear enough originally. The existing partition on the 100GB drive needs to be resized down to about 75GB. The remaining space will be used to create a new primary partition. This new partition will be where Norton Ghost or Acronis True Image will copy the data from the 5GB drive.

I suppose the best situation would be to practice partitioning on a spare drive that contains no useful data. I would be very nervous using this software for the first time on a drive that contains data that I couldn't afford to lose.

[rossl]

Use Acronis to save an image of the 5 gig drive to a DVD before you do any of the above.

[Timcredible]

what you're looking to do is really easy with linux (boot any livecd distro into the normal gui, run qtparted to partition/resize, copy files normally from the gui, reboot. no swapping of cables or anything needed). looks like it's much more difficult with windows. good luck on that.

[festivus]

Wow. This Hiren's Boot CD is incredible. I never heard about it until now. I'll give all this a shot sometime this weekend. I'll back up the data on the 100gig slave to a couple of DVD's or to my main networked PC.

Thanks for the advice.

[Timcredible]

Wow. This Hiren's Boot CD is incredible. I never heard about it until now.

bootable CDs have been around about 4 years. they're quite handy, aren't they?

[jchiso]

You can do this relatively easily without spending any cash by downloading and burning a bootable Live CD of GParted. It's a graphical, Linux-based drive-partitioning software that's similar to Partition Magic and other comparable products. In addition to that you can download a trial version of Acronis' TrueImage Home to create a backup of your Windows drive (or partition).

Use GParted to resize and move the partition on your storage drive and create an unformatted partition (large enough to hold your newly-sized Windows partition) at the beginning of the 100GB drive.

Use TrueImage to restore the backed-up Windows partition to the allocated space. TrueImage will give you a choice to use all of the designated partition, so your new Windows partition will be as large as you allocate.

For what it's worth, TrueImage is based on Linux as well, and if you are so apt you could do this with any number of Live Linux CDs, as timcredible pointed out.

[festivus]

OK. I tried each of these .iso's burned to it's own CD. The Dell simply won't boot from a CD no matter what I try. I've been in the bios setup all night trying to get it to try to tell it to boot from CD first but it just won't do it. Any ideas on what might be happening? The PC has 2 CD drives (on is a burner) and the 2 hard drives. I've tried everything.

[jchiso]

Did you burn them as bootable images or did you just burn the .isos as data CDs?

[festivus]

Ahhh, see what happens when a newbie tries this? I now see the correct option in my Nero burning software. I'll give it a shot.

[festivus]

OK. Did everything using Acronis and Norton ghost. Ghosted entire small hard drive to new 25 gig partition on big hard drive. Phsically switched the hard drives and cables. PC won't boot now. Getting "error loading OS". Any ideas on what might be causing this? I thought it may have been the drive letter designations but I can't find anywhere how to monkey with the drive letters. Jumpers and cables to the HDs are ok.

[Captain_Rob]

...PC won't boot now. Getting "error loading OS"...

Sounds like a problem I had once, most likely had to do with Ghost not restoring the boot sector and/or not marking it active. This is how I fixed it (Disclaimer: I'm assuming you can re-Ghost back to where you are at now, so there shouldn't be a risk of trying):

Boot from your Windows OS CD and choose the recover option. If it see's your Windows installation it should prompt you for the Administrator password (try a blank enter if you never set a password). When you get to what looks like a DOS command prompt, type in; "fdisk" (without quotes), and mark your boot drive/partion as active. If needed, fdisk is also available from a Win98 boot disk. If it still doesn't boot from the HD, try booting from your Windows OS CD and choose the recover option again, this time type; "FixBoot C:" (assuming your Windows drive is C), and if that doesn't work, "fixmbr \Device\HardDisk0".

[festivus]

Thanks for the advice. I tried it. No fdisk on my xp cd so I couldn't do that. But I'm sure that the partition is active. Did the "fixboot C:" and I'm still getting the "error loading OS" message. I may have to call it quits for today. Wife is getting p!ssed since I've been at it since 9:00 AM. Switch back to using the tiny HD as the master so the PC will work I guess. There must be something on the old drive that I can't get on to the new partition on the new drive. I'm forced to do a partition ghost since I have data on the new drive's old partition.

Maybe I'll try the "fixmbr \Device\HardDisk0" next weekend. I've had it for this weekend. Wasted about 10 hours on this. Hopefully it now works like it did (poorly) before yesterday.

[jchiso]

You said you used "Acronis". Was that TrueImage or some other software package? With TrueImage you are given the option of restoring the saved volume as an active, bootable system. If you have not done so already I would recommend the following: use TrueImage Home (Trial or retail version) to make a complete backup of the WindowsXP system partition. You have enough space on you data drive to store the backup. Just create a directory and direct it to that spot.

Remove the old (Windows) drive and set the cabling accordingly on the large drive. Use the bootable TrueImage CD to do a sytem restore of the saved image to the 25GB primary partition you created. TrueImage will ask you if you want to resize the partition and/or make it bootable. Complete each of the steps and the restore should proceed without further incident.

[festivus]

If I remember correctly, there may have been something preventing me from running True Image. I had to use Norton Ghost to copy files from the small HD to the new partition. I used Acronis Partion Director to create the new partition.

I'll give your new plan a shot. Thanks for the help.

[festivus]

Hey jchiso. I'm burning a vacation day tomorrow (post buckeye game recovery) and wanted to clarify a few things since I might be working on the PC.

So, on my 100 gig data drive (set up as slave), I now have 2 partitions. A 75 gig partition with existing data and a 25 gig that is now empty. The 25 gig is the active partition. I still have the 5 gig drive (master) with XP, etc.

Now, let me see if I understand your instructions. I should download and install True Image Home trial version (I'm too cheap to buy this stuff!). Can I install it on the 75 gig partition on the slave drive? I have no room to install anything else on the 5 gig master.

Assuming I can do this, I run True Image and create an image of the 5 gig drive to a directory in the 25 gig partition on the 100 gig slave. I then switch my cabling or jumpers to make the 100 gig the master and the 5 gig the slave.

Then I get confused. Where does the bootable True Image CD come from? Can I make this CD using the downloaded trial version of True Image? Or is it in Hirem's Boot CD? I think that I was having trouble launching True Image via the Hirem's CD but I honestly don't remember. I tried so many different pieces of software in the 13 hours that I worked on this.

Any help greatly appreciated!

[jchiso]

You can install TrueImage onto any readable volume on your system, so the 75GB partition (which Windows refers to as "D:", assuming the 25GB partition has not been formatted) will suffice.
Perform the following steps:
Download and install TrueImage Home 10 Trial to the 75GB partition
Make a backup of the Windows system (5GB) drive to a directory on the 75GB partition
Use TrueImage's "Tools" menu to make a Bootable Rescue CD
Remove (or disconnect) the old 5GB drive
Change jumper settings on the 100GB drive to "Master"
Place the bootable TrueImage Rescue CD into the ROM drive
Boot the system and initiate a restore to the 25GB partition from the saved image on the 75GB partitionI don't know anything of Hirem's Boot CD. My original, no-muss recommendation was to use GParted (for the non-destructive partitioning) and TrueImage (for the drive imaging). I currently use TrueImage (v 9.0), DriveImage (v7) and Ghost (versions 9.0 and 2003) on various computers and have found TrueImage to be the best of the lot, but it's not an indictment of the other products; they are all satisfactory. Use whichever backup program you prefer.

Truth be told, the easiest way to do this is to use a program like VCom's Copy Commander. Available at MicroCenter or via download, it performs copies of entire drives or partitions and makes moving a Windows (or other OS) system to a new, larger drive a snap, and runs entirely from the CD. It's what I use for drive migrations.

Remember: be patient, and good luck!

[festivus]

Perfect. Makes total sense. I really appreciate the help. The first time doing anything like this is always rough, at least for me.

Sorry about the Hirem's Boot CD. Someone else told me about that. It has a lot of good tools for doing this type of thing on it. I could probably do this with that CD but I just couldn't get it quite right.

Do you know what tool is best to change a drive letter? I think that my 25 gig partition is now E and the 75 gig is D. I would like them to be the other way around, I think. I'm concerned that my registry settings may be off if I don't swap them.

[jchiso]

The 25GB partition will be the boot drive, and thus "C:" in a Windows environment. The 75GB part will be "D:". Assuming you have not added anything to your configuration after reformatting the 100GB drive you will revert to having just a "C:" and a "D:". So everything should fall back into place.

[festivus]

Still no success. Here's what I had to do:

I downloaded true image to my 75 gig partition then tried to install it. I couldn't. Even though my default install directory is the 75 gig partion, apparently a temp file needs to be written to the C: drive, the 5 gig master, and I run out of space. I have only 144 meg free on that drive. Cleaned up everything that I can.

So, I ran true image from the hirem's boot cd and created a disk image of the 5 gig drive to the 75 gig partition on the 100 gig drive. I then restored the image to the 25 gig partition on the 100 gig drive. I then took out the 5 gig drive and via the cables made the 100 gig the master.

When I try to boot I get "Primary Hard Disk Drive 1 Not Found". I then hit a key to proceed, f1 I think, then I get
"Windows Could Not Start Because the Following File Could Not Be Found"
"<windowsroot>\system32\hal.dll"
"Please re-install a copy of the above file"

I tried to do the commands that Captain_Rob wrote a few posts ago. Those didn't work either.

Am I missing something glaring?

[jchiso]

First off; don't make any further changes to your old 5GB drive. Hang on to that so in a worst-case scenario you can create new images or do a partition copy by other means if so needed.

It's difficult to state definitively what your problem may be given that you've tried various fixes since your attempted migration, but in most cases your problems should be solved by doing a "Repair" installation of Windows. To do so, power down and boot your system with your Windows CD in the ROM drive. You will need your Windows Product Key to complete the installation, so make sure you have it handy.

Set the system to boot from the CD and you will be prompted "To set up
Windows now, press ENTER". Press ENTER.

The setup program should find the previous installation. Use the cursor keys to select the installation and press "R" to initiate the "Repair the selected Windows installation".

This will start the process and go through the steps of repairing your previous installation. It will take some time, but when done your settings and progams should be intact.

Big caveat here; this assumes your Windows CD is the same version as your current installation, specifically that if your hard drive contained Service Pack 2 that your Windows CD is a Service Pack 2 version as well. If such is not the case you can still complete the installation, but will have to do a series of registry tweaks for a successful transformation.

If all of this seems too daunting and potentially excessively time-consuming (as I'm sure you would declare it already) I would recommend purchasing a copy of VCom's Copy Commander, which should be able to perform the migration with just a few mouse clicks.

Again, good luck!

[festivus]

Thanks for the help. I keep getting a bit further each time.

Last time, I had to mod my bios settings and set drive 1 to "none" so it wouldn't look for it. It got a bit further. I did a series of commands from my xp start up cd too. Stuff like "fixboot c:" etc. Got the advice elsewhere online. Got a bit further, Still wouldn't boot up though. Got to the login screen in xp. Logged in but then it would log me right off again.

I'm trying to redo everything acc to method 2 here:

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm

The restore of the image is running now, we'll see...

[festivus]

It finally worked!! Thanks to you, jchiso and a few others I finally got it going.

The article I noted in the previous post was vital. Apparently in xp the registry sort of hard codes devices. I had to delete these entries before beginning the cloning process. At the end of everything, my drive letters were messed up a bit. I have 2 Cd drives in that pc, one is a burner. The process gave me C and D as my partitions, E and F as my CD drives. I needed E to be the 75 gig partition, not the CD drive. It was easy to swap them in disk manager in xp. All apps that I tried tested OK so far.

Thanks for the help!

[jchiso]

That's good to hear. The screwy registry and drive designation stuff was why I recommended that you remove the old "C:" after you did the clone. You were probably pretty close, but after you booted with the old drive attached and an extra visible partition on the new drive your drive letters were altered. At least now you won't be so reluctant next time; and yes, there will be a next time. You'd be amazed how fast you can fill a 75GB drive!

[festivus]

Even when I tried to boot with the old 5 gig detached I was still having the issue until I cleared the registry of hard drive entries. For some reason, it kept looking for the old drive until I deleted the entry. The clone drive, of course, also had those entries until I created an image without them.

I sure learned a lot in the roughly 15-20 hours it took to get this done! And yes, I'm hoping that we don't fill the new drive too quickly.

[nakedeye]

somewhat of a different problem here for ya. i figured you guys may help so i just added to this thread

i somehow revered the power cable going into my hard drive. it released the magic smoke. looking at it , i only see damage to a few spots on the board under it. i dont think it made it to the drive it'self. i relay would like to get the photos off of there at the least. any ideas?

[Captain_Rob]

...i somehow revered the power cable going into my hard drive. it released the magic smoke...

Do you have another drive of the exact same model? If so, you might be able to swap the electronics. I'd suggest backing up the 2nd drive before attempting this. I have about 10 old HD's laying around of various makes, models, sizes, which you would be welcome to if by chance one is the same as yours.

Of course the other option is a commercial data recovery service, but it would cost you some big bucks. See the link below.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hard+drive+data+recovery

[SgtZeke]

I think if you use Disk Management in XP you can change everything but the c drive.

[festivus]

Ouch. I fried a Sony receiver one time by pulling on a speaker wire that was still attached to the receiver. The other end of the wire touched a halfway exposed plug in my surge protector. Sparks, smoke, etc. Not pretty.

Sorry, I don't know what to tell you about getting the data. I've never tried to dismantle a hard drive. If the pics are valuable to you a professional may be the best option.

[Scott]

I did the same thing one time. I swapped the controller card (the board underneath) with a like model and it worked long enough for me to grab the data from it. Received the tick of death shortly after.